If I’m going to take over for Miggidy Mack I should begin by totally lambasting him.  I liked the article he wrote but it was actually game PLAY theory he was discussing.  So how about we talk about REAL game theory.  Let’s start with the basics!

The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy says:  Game theory is the study of the ways in which strategic interactions among rational players produce outcomes with respect to the preferences (or utilities) of those players, none of which might have been intended by any of them.

Agents & Minigames

Game Theory uses the term Agents in place of players, but they are basically the same thing in any tabletop game.  Each player has a “preference” for an outcome, usually victory.  This can be broken down smaller, however.  The term “mini-game” refers to a game within a game.  The players still have preferences (win the assault, maneuver out of range) and those preferences effect the larger game.

The assault mini-game, for instance, is one of Odds and Chance.  We can do the math hammer to determine the likely hood of an event, but there is still a chance the numbers will not go in your favor.  The game has very few decisions at first glance, but when decisions need to be made they are very important.  Choosing whether or not to put attacks on an independent character or how to move models into an assault (or assault multiple units) can drastically complicate things.  These decisions are made and then the results are discovered.  It’s a gamble, although one whose odds are easily discernible.

Zero Sum vs. Non-Zero Sum

Zero Sum refers to a game where every interaction with the rules results in one player losing a set amount and another player gaining that same amount.  Poker is a great example, as one player gains $10 all the other players must have lost an amount totaling exactly $10 (ignoring the houses cut).

40k is NOT a zero sum game.  Players have a resources (units) and they can only lose them.  While it certainly puts my opponent at an advantage to deplete my resources, it does not give him more resources.  This is why “resources gain” is so rare in 40k, and why units like the Tervigon are considered so powerful… and such a big game changer.

Metagaming

Metagaming is the biggest factor in the tournament scene.  It refers to any strategy or course of action that transcends the rules.  When we build army lists this is typically our biggest concern.  Assume a tournament will have about 16 players consisting of: 4 space marines, 3 orks, 2 chaos marines, 2 guard, 2 tyranid, 1 space wolves, 1 daemonhunters and 1 eldar  With that break down the player is able to rationalize that half the players have a 3+ armor save, and that weapons capable of breaking through the save are important to his success at a tournament.

The metagame choices are not so simple, however.  If there is a large amount of terrain on the table, and 4+ cover saves will be common then weapons that have a higher volume of shots and a higher strength will yield better results over the course of a tournament.  If 2 of the marine players are running all scout lists then the choices change again.

Your choice of army further complicates the issue!  You have to assume other players are making the same decisions you are making and build your list to take cause their army list to be less effective against you, knowing what choices they are making.  As groups of players adjust their lists after each tournament to account for this information the metagame revolves.  Players buy new units and adjust.

Comp Scores attempt to stagnate the metagame, which only serves to make one army (whichever abuses the comp scores best) more powerful.  This is why discussions on forums are so important.  You have to create demographic overviews and build an army list to incorporate that information.

Here are a few books on Game Theory if this sparks your imagination.  I highly recommend:

Game Theory: A Nontechnical Introduction for beginners or those who haven’t had statistics.

Rock, Paper, Scissors for ways to actually apply game theory to Warhammer 40k and other games.

Game Theory: Analysis of Conflict is great for 40k as well, although a bit theoretical at times for what you’re probably wanting.

Strategy: An Introduction to Game Theory is for those who want to have a college reference book on hand with tons of examples.  This book is for serious math heads and those who really want to dig their teeth into something academic.  It’s also like 70 bucks… it doesn’t fuck around.

All good things….continue in episode 77.

In the first segment we go from Skrivus gluing himself to a Lascannon to emo/sparkly/blood sucking Space Marines (aka Blood Angels). And we round it out with a special segment entitled “Douche Bag of the Week.”

The second segment finds Dan pimping a Tyranid list from The Dark Lord sent to us in July. Using the new ‘Nid codex, he updates this list while Chris envisions Leaping ‘Nids prancing about with special shoes. Oh, and we talk about how to kill the nids which results in Richard making a prediction involving Vulcan He’Stan.

We start the segment by talking with the hosts of The 11th Company which is a new up & coming podcast. Then Chris pimps out a friend of his Andy Chriclow as an excellent miniatures painter. There’s a book review…some talk about the Bitchslap Battletech Challenge with Phil from The Warbanner and then Dan & Rich close it out by thanking Mack.

We hope you enjoy the show and think the bathroom spy cam photos added 10 pounds to your ass.

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Hello Guys and Dolls, its me again … Bestia, here with my weekily wrap of news and rumours. Rather then flapping my gum, let me get straight to it

Blood Angels Commander Dante

Commander Dante is to have a jump pack, a special pistol, with a 2+/4++ and a Death Mask (Alledegy gives an extra attack in assault for each enemy attack that targets him and misses, capped at 4), His super Axe that gives him a +1 to his strength and a special rule that affects reserves.

For More information, check out the rumours here, on Bell of Lost Souls.

Is it a Rhino, is a Valkerye ….

The cover of the upcoming Black Library novel “Hunt for Voldorius”

Over at WarSeer, there was a smart cookie who desided to give us a look at what he think the flying Landraider will look like. His name is Scryer in the Darkness, and I think he could be on the money.

See the orginal post from warseer here.

Mr GW makes a statement about his health

Black library published a statement from Dan Abbott about some health problems he had late last year. But the great news is that he is feeling better and talking about Prospero Burns , and how it has been pushed back to 2011. And a quote from Dan himself “ I’ll do everything I can to make sure that Prospero Burns is worth the wait.”

Read the full story here

Astronomican goes bug crazy

So far this month the GW Astronomican has gone bug crazy. To date there is 13 articles with everything from how to paint the nids, through to putting them together, and tactics and how expantions such as COD and Planetstrike affect them. It is a great read, check it out here.

I’d Pork her

The Argentina’s Presenident Cristina Fernandez claims that pork is better then Viagra, after having a dirty weekend with her husband that included a bbq pork. She said she recently ate pork and “things went very well that weekend, so it could well be true.” Now that is more then I wanted to know about any politican. You can read the story here

Fairwell and Goodluck

I am sure I am not alone, when I say farewell and goodluck to Mack, after hearing that he has gotten his dream job with a game company. Mack, we will miss hearing you keep Ian in line, and would like to express my thanks for starting this great community and expanding it. When ya become a famous game designer, dont forget you can hook an Aussie up and send me free stuff

And that was something completely different … and I welcome my new overlord …

This is not the end of Dice Like Thunder, obviously it can live on without me just fine. Dan & Richard have been doing this for quite some time. The new format is a lot of work and I am happy to put in the hours, so that isn’t the factor either. It’s actually a good thing.

I found a job. A good job. A great job. My dream job. Unfortunately it would be professionally inappropriate for me to continue podcasting like I currently am. Hopefully you guys will all hear from me again some day in a professional capacity. Rest assured I will be reading the forums and chatting with Dan & Richard on a regular basis.

To keep the new site going I have found a veteran gamer who you is rather new to the site. Rafe is a skilled tournament player who has been doing this for years. He too has a degree in game design and really knows his stuff. Heck, half of what I write is passed on from him anyway! He won’t be able to write an article a day, so the articles will be coming on a less scheduled basis. Expect 3 to 5 a week, but not in any particular order.

Hopefully I can squeeze in one last webcast before I relocate to my new job, but it will be soon. Very soon. I’ll still be around for a few days, maybe a week maybe two. I’ll have to go soon, however. Gotta be a professional… damn it.

Man… I’m gonna miss all this. I’m gonna miss it a lot. Wow, I just don’t have the words. Thank you all so much for listening to me rant and rave. I can’t tell you how much the success of this show has meant to me. My recent opportunities are very much tied to this site and the webcast. None of this would have been possible without you guys. I can’t express my appreciation properly.

I was planning on NOT reviewing actual games in the “product review” section of our site… but I have to break my promise… cus I’m totally excited about Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay now. Why? Cus I built a character and did a few mock combat to figure out how the game functions in a non-theoretical way.

I know there are a lot of you out there who were a big fan of the last edition. I know there are a lot of you out there who hate new editions of anything. Well on this one you’re just plain wrong. It’s one of, if not the, best roleplaying game I have ever played.

A few weeks ago Chuck and I both dropped $100 apiece on the main box set. It’s a big price tag I know, but when you actually get down to what’s in the box it’s worth it. There are hundreds of cards, puzzle pieces (for tracking all kinds of stuff) and all the special dice you will need.

I’ve read through all the rule books and had a pretty good idea of how the game would work. I’d built a couple sample characters and tried to figure out what I was looking at when it came to those numbers interacting with the game world. I was pretty happy with the books but in no rush to play. The art quality was top notch, the production value of the pieces was excellent and the rules were comprehensive with few (if any) noticeable typos. There was also the word “moustache” which brought me immense joy.

So what changed? Well last night we built characters. At it’s heart the game has three major elements that all work seamlessly with each other to generate synergy on multiple levels. The first is the Character Cards which are your character class. During character creation you choose your race and draw 3 cards replacing them until you get 3 that your characters race can be. The group all drew their class cards and we decided as a group which of the party template cards we would use. Then we built our characters, choosing the best option to fit our template.

I can’t even begin to get into the detail of how complex and deep these mechanics were. Each player card has different options for talents to be slotted into them, these mimic those on the party card. We gain bonuses while doing things as a group and can share talents by slotting them in the party card rather than our own. We chose “Swords for Hire” which gives us shared tactic and reputation tabs and a nice ability to heal fatigue.

Sound complicated? It is! But not in a bad way. If you ignore the mechanics and go with what “sounds like fun” and create characters that fit the concept you will will have great party that functions well together.

Then there is the stance meter and action cards. This is a simple mechanic used to make every character function very differently without everyone having to learn their own set of rules. Once you have the basics down you can play any character. This lets the game focus on character growth instead of character sheet growth.

Everything about the art direction is designed to make an incredibly complex game run very smoothly. The stance meter is assembled through puzzle pieces and you slide a marker up and down it to track your stance. Tons of chits and helpful pieces make the game LOOK like a board game, but play like an RPG.

I’ll leave you with this example of game play.

Chuck: As you travel down the old dirt road (he lays down an old dirt road card) you come to a clearing in the forest (he lays down a forest glade card). It takes a moment before you notice a single bone hanging on a string made of gut from one of the gnarled trees. Once you see it, they all become vividly clear, dozens of bones hanging from the trees around you. Roll for combat initiative. He places our character stand ups (cardboard pictures on stands that could EASILY be replaced with Warhammer Mini’s) on the road card.

We each roll our Agility (social initiative is Fellowship). I take 4 blue 8 sided characteristic dice and luck out with 3 successes. The others roll theirs and report to Chuck, who places “hero” chits next to his initiative tracker. He then rolls some dice behind the screen and places a few monster chits nearby, but does not assign them to the tracker (we don’t know when they go). As a group we decide who is taking the first move, as my weapon is heaviest and we haven’t seen an enemy they let me draw my blade. We act on initiatives 3, 3 and 2, so pretty close together.

Me: I assume a conservative posture (I move my marker down the green line on my tracker) as I maneuver (those are non attack actions) to draw my Greatsword of Hoeth (guess what I’m playing!).

Ian: I draw my weapon and crouch ready to spring recklessly. (moving his marker down the red tracker).

Kevin: I slip an arrow into my longbow as silently as possible (going conservative). I assess the situation (kevin plays a green card labeled “assess the situation” and gathers 3 characteristic dice. He converts one into a conservative dice (as he is 1 point into the conservative track) and adds in a yellow expertise dice (he is trained in the appropriate skill). He rolls 2 successes, but one has an hourglass token. Chuck places 2 counters on his “assess the situation card” because of the hourglass, so he won’t be able to observe like that for 2 rounds. Kevin succeeded, however, and he is now harder to hit until the end of his next turn. Kevin ends his turn and removes one of the hourglass tokens from his Assess The Situation card.

Chuck: Several goblins step from behind trees, one calls out in a feeble voice, “THE SHINY BITS, WE TAKE!” They don’t move to engage you, however, they may be holding back to make use of their numbers. Chuck places a goblin token on the glades card, showing us that it is not at close range to us. Back up to the top of the initiative.

Kevin: Mind if I go first guys? (We nod our approval). I’ll let the one who spoke have it with carefully placed arrow. Kevin moves his tracker down another conservative notch. He takes the ranged shot card and rolls a ballistic skill test, he replaces 2 agility dice with conservative dice, adds in a yellow expertise dice and a white fate die for his specialization in the longbow.

Chuck: This shot isn’t too tough, especially for a longer range weapon like your bow. Chuck tosses in a single red challenge dice to represent the difficulty. Kevin gets 2 successes and 2 boons, the boons allow him to make a free maneuver, so he draws his longsword after the shot. Kevin deals 10 damage, minus some for the goblins toughness and soak, it’s hurt but not down.

Then we kick some goblin asses.

One of the discussions I have a lot lately is about comp scores. The reason they are so popular is that many players focus on one or two skill sets while learning the game and they feel this is the way the game “should” be played. Those players who throw down at 40k 3 or 4 times a weak usually feel that comp scores are unnecessary. It’s a matter of practice and a deeper understanding of the armies. This is basically what defines their play “style”. Modern Game Theory has many different skill sets and for the most part Warhammer 40k makes use of them all tactically and strategically, but many armies lean towards one skill more heavily than others. This is the typical “style” of the army. So what makes a good Marine player or Tyranid player?

I thought I would turn my BA in Game Design towards the world of 40k and talk about some rather esoteric stuff today… hope ya’ll don’t mind.

I’m going to walk through the current “Fifth” edition armies (as I see them) and talk a little about how each one uses a different skill set that many may not have thought about. It should be noted that every army requires ALL of these skills, some just function better in the hands of a player who has honed one area of expertise. This is typical referred to as “play style”. I (Miggidy Mack) function better with armies that focus on Dismantle tactics and find Space Wolves right up my ally. Richard is very skilled with Target Priority and plays Space Marines very well.

Chaos Daemons & Opponent Reading
The Chaos Daemon army is best played by a player who knows every other codex inside and out. Players who have had many other armies and know how they function are able to read their opponents army list and know exactly how to pull them apart. Many players attempt to field “powerful” forces with this codex. Those players who are successful field armies able to pull strategies apart. A good Daemon player has an army able to shift what goes into each half, and has a contingency plan for bad random selection. The Daemon player has to be able to read his opponents actions and through his own experience know how to counter act his opponents hidden strategy.

Daemons truly is a veterans army. Without a world of skill and lots of practice one will think that the army is weak. It is not, in the hands of a skilled player it decimates even the hardest “power list”. Poker players make good Daemon players as they know how to react to bad luck and to watch an opponents actions for strategy tip offs. Thus the importance of Opponent Reading in both poker and playing a Daemon army.

Orks & Field Manipulation
While the typical Ork army relies on volume of fire over quality of fire there are some notable exceptions that allows the force to field some very powerful elite units. It also combines speed and resilience, but rarely in the same unit. The obvious exception is Nob Bikers. Because of this the successful Ork player is able to manipulate the field to his advantage. Be it cover saves for his efficient Boyz or knowing when to Waaagh to cover those critical few inches into an assault. Orks take advantage of the game board as best as they can to bring their power to bear while protecting themselves.

Ork armies are more unforgiving than many players think, now that the metagame has calmed down. Go players find themselves at home with an Ork army. Their sheer volume of attacks makes “mathhammer” fairly predictable with them and this allows players well versed in strategic games able to make use of their strengths while minimizing their weaknesses.

Space Marines & Target Priority
With their resilience, variety of weaponry and higher than average ballistic skill the marines have a shooting answer for everything. Combine this with inexpensive transports and rapid assault units and you have a recipe for an army that does extremely well in the hands of a player who is good at target priority. Knowing what will do the most damage to your forces and taking out quickly (and reliably) is a complex topic but with marines it becomes much simpler. Ap 2 and 3 shooting becomes a priority, high strength shooting and power weapon wielding units need to die first. If this is done properly the Space Marine player will meet with much success.

Marine armies are often thought of as “beginner” armies because they are forgiving of mistakes. It is also true that they give new players a variety of options and let them learn the critical target priority skill. Players who are good at chess and can think several steps ahead while juggling multiple unit functions find Space Marines to be right up their ally. Just because people think that his is a “beginners” army that doesn’t mean it can rock your world!

Imperial Guard & Foresight
With big guns, lots of outflanking units and fragile units the Imperial Guard player finds himself needing a plan. He must choose his deployment very carefully and be ready to manipulate the pacing of the game from turn 1. Knowing his opponents deployment and holding units in reserve become critical to a guard player. The easiest way to defeat a guard player is to force him to go first! Guard players will often hold everything in reserve when going first, so that they can give themselves time to adjust to their opponents deployment.

Guard armies are attractive to players who appreciate redundant units, as it’s easier to plan when it’s unlikely to lose an entire strategic function in one round. Risk players are good Guard players. Their ability to plan the game out from deployment and then adapt to dice rolls makes a Risk player ready to handle bad scatter dice when his plan gets shaken up.

Space Wolves & Dismantling
Dismantling is a close relative of target priority, but it uses shock & awe to limit an opponents response options. By getting tied up in assaults the army protects itself from shooting. With the sheer number of characters the army also functions with fewer tactical assets. While a Space Wolves army might have 10 units, their are only 3 or 4 operating groups (HQ’s with troops in transports is 3 units that operate as one). This makes for hard hitting hammers that tear through enemy lines. Dismantle armies hit an opponent hard, forcing them to respond. A second unit then responds in turn and hopefully the opponents force is dismantled one piece at a time or at least reduced to intellectuality.

Space Wolves armies are another good army for a new player. In the hands of a veteran they can be even more devastating. Dungeons & Dragons players make good Space Wolves players, as they know the strengths of a few units and are able to support those units with each other.

Tyranids & Situational Analysis
The nids is a newer codex, but it really boils down to one thing… knowing the odds. With a relatively few number of attacks (4 or 5) on monstrous creatures they just won’t be able to take down a horde. Combine that with inefficient units (when compared to guard or orks) and you have a force that can field hordes, but not as well as other forces. It’s all about knowing the odds and not getting stuck in a war of attrition. It may seem like Tervigon’s will let you fight on forever, but often they just result in more dead bugs when a more powerful assault army hits your line. When faced with 30 Ork Boyz with a Klaw a much more expensive unit of Termigaunts and their Tervigon are just going to get crushed… so Nid players need to be able to guess ranges and do the math in their head or risk being ripped to shreds by attrition.

Nids are a great army for players who can deal with layers of complexity. It’s not 100% (as any statistician will tell you) but it does let the nid player know when he is up against a wall. Magic the Gathering players make good Nid players. They have to assess their tools and the metagame when building their army list. The nid codex is capable of several different strategies ranging form drop pod assaults, swarm tactics and hammer units. All these options operate differently and combining them well into one deck … er army list, is something Magic players have grown accustomed too.

So there you have it. The “5th edition” codex’s and their chosen “other skill”. I haven’t talked about older codex’s, but you can easily see how many function… but who knows how that will change! Eldar, for instance, are a focused fire army, bringing firepower to bear quickly and decisively. Daemonhunters operate similar to the Space Wolves but with an eye towards resilience. It’s an incredibly complicated topic that I could discuss for years without ever getting bored!

Here it is… enjoy! I wish there was more to say… but there is not!

RITUAL WITNESS CHAPTER 2

Since I have nothing else to really say today… here is a funny video that I found that makes me think of Richard.

We had a lot of fun recording this episode. After days of testing with the new nid codex we talk about it a lot.

In our first section we round up just chatting about the new website, our new contest and some of the many other things we do for crazy crazy fun. In addition we cover some nids stuff. We also thank Mr. Karklash-Ton!

I’d like to take this moment to mention that we didn’t get to talk about the change to the Space Wolves FAQ. We recorded 1 hour before it went online! Needless to say we like it. It shows that GW is treating the FAQ’s like a living document, that they don’t take nearly as long as thought to make changes AND that the goal is to have a more intuitive game! AWESOME!

In our second segment we give a shout out to some twin having forum user! Let’s call him Clutch. Then we get deep into a game of Orks Vs. Nidz played by Ian and Kev.

Our last segment? “IT’S D&D! Fighting with the dragons of yore! IT’S D&D! Never kissed a lady before!”

Enjoy!

Listen Here

Good Morning/Evening Ladies, Gents and Gamers, it is I Bestia from the Forums once more bring you the weekily wrap up in the news of mostly 40k at the moment (I`ll expand out later on)

I am going to start with the biggest announcement of the week …

The Hobby Talk Network

DLT, IVC and the War Banner have all joined up at the Hobby Talk Network. Now what this means for the fans is more cross promotion, more infomation, and more opinions from a range of people from the Newbies to the Grissily old Vets (I`m looking at you TD) to the Lady Gamer. So after listening to this weeks DLT Episode, go over to IVC and the War Banner and give them a listen.  And maybe between the 3 of them, they could afford to fly an Australian who reports on 40k News to Adepticon

GW Changes Spacewolves FAQ ..

As of the 20th of Jan, GW removed the bonus of furious charge from Counter attack, bringing it into line with common sense.  Now it could be said that GW just bowed to pressure, but I like to think that who ever wrote that FAQ, was given a chaos Dreadnaught in a sock for his Mistake.

Blood Angel Rumors, They keep coming

Over at Bell of Lost Souls, two new batches of rumours have come out. One is just an army wide list, and another is about the Exalted Assault Squad. Now if these are true, I might have get to get me a space marine army …. Nar I would never sink that low ….  You can check out the rumors – Here for the Army Wide,  and Here for the Exalted Assault Squad

Sweaty Stack of Pancakes can kill

And not go to Jail.

Fat V Skinny

A Woman in Cleveland, has killed her partner, by sitting on him. Apparently they were having a bit of a lovers tiff, and she had enough of his skinny crap and SAT ON HIM. She was sentenced to three years probation and 100 hours community service on Wednesday the 20th of Jan, after pleading guilty to involuntary manslaughter. The Skinny Guy’s Family was not impressed with the sentence. “So basically you can say that I can go sit on somebody and get probation?” said one of the victim’s sisters.

Now just to prove I`m not making this stuff up, you can read about it here, or watch the 40 second clip, below

Woman Sits on Man – Fox8

BoSL HOBBY CHALLENGE: To Build a Tervigon/Tyrannofex

BoSL is running a hobby challenge that sounds strangely similar to the one I started last week. But they are offering REAL PRIZES. So why dont we have a DLT enter both, win mine so I can run the story, and win Bosl and get the below. For more information click here

And that was the News

So here is part II of our “Training New Players” segment. This one focuses on Target Priority. The goal of course if for new players to know what they are shooting at and why! They should be choosing the right things to kill at the right time. Now some armies may not need this sort of training but it’s good for them to understand anyway. After all their enemies will be doing it!

TRAINING DAY 2:

Veteran Force: The Veteran player has a force of 750 points that must have 4 or 5 units matching the following description. 2 identical units with at least 10 models (and as low an armor save as possible), 1 unit with a transport and 1 or 2 units with a shooting range of at least 36″.

New Player Force: The new player builds a list (without knowing what the veteran player is taking) of 750 points and should focus on shooting.

Terrain: Place 1 objective 12″ from the New Players board edge. There should also be 2 or 3 pieces of line of site blocking terrain on the board, covering about 25% of the board.

Setup: The veteran player deploys his forces in the noted locations. The new player then deploys his force within 12″ of his board edge.

Game Play: The Veteran player takes the first turn, moving his entire force onto the table from his board edge.

Make sure the new player is aware of every unit you are throwing at him. Explain what it does and what you are planning to shot at on the next turn… and why!